Working for the Elijah List

Keven Kleint gives his testimony from working as the webmaster for the popular ‘prophetic’ Elijah List group for seven years. A  very interesting series  to read concerning the things that were going on behind close doors of  the Elijah List group.
http://www.honorofkings.org/elijahlist/

Peter Wagner responds to Todd Bentley’s affair. Backpeddling?

To: Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team
From: C. Peter Wagner
Date: August 12, 2008
Subject: Todd Bentley’s Character Crisis

Most of you would be aware that the Lakeland Ledger broke the news publicly that Todd and Shona have decided to terminate their marriage. In Canada this requires a nine-month “separation” before official divorce proceedings can go into effect. I am quite upset by this development, and I know you will be also. I am now receiving a large amount of “I told you so!” email and I must say that my friends have a point. This has taken the lid off of a number of related character accusations against Todd that are now coming in which I might have dismissed previously, but no longer can do so off hand.

Let’s take some time to process this. Todd was officially, publicly aligned with the Revival Alliance, so the three of you {end times note: John Arnott, Bill Johnson & Che Ahn} should definitely make some kind of statement, probably sending it to Steve Strang. Let’s not sweep this under the rug with a “touch not God’s anointed” as has been done with so many similar issues in our morally soft charismatic environment.

Meanwhile, I called Chuck Pierce for help, and he sent me the letter I am attaching with this here. Chuck has some very encouraging insights for us.

Blessings,
Peter

C. Peter Wagner
President, Global Harvest Ministries

Chancellor, Wagner Leadership Institute
719-262-9922

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An Update on Lakeland from Peter
August 25, 2008
I was in the San Francisco airport on my way to Singapore and Indonesia when the news of Todd Bentley’s separation from his wife became public on August 12. When I arrived back home last week, I found that Doris had received and replied to around 1,700 emails and the stack of correspondence on my desk was unbelievable. It took me the rest of the week to catch up!
During the week I was gone, a major watershed occurred regarding the Lakeland situation as most of you would know. We are now on a new playing field. Lakeland Outpouring I, in which Todd Bentley was the main figure, is now history. Lakeland Outpouring II, in which Stephen Strader of Ignited Church is the main figure, has begun.
The Present
It will sound surprising to some, but Lakeland II in Ignited Church, which you will remember was the original host church, is going very well. The big crowds and GOD TV, of course, are gone. Ignited Church seats around 700 in the main sanctuary and Stephen Strader reports that on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings they have to use their overflow room. It is comfortably filled on week nights. The morning training sessions continue with a couple hundred every day, and teams continue to move daily into the streets of Lakeland spreading the gospel. Percentage-wise the dramatic miracles and healings occur nightly with probably a higher percentage of salvations on a daily basis. Support from local pastors is improving considerably. The most interesting report is that every night some 30 percent are first-time attenders, meaning that people are still coming to Lakeland from the outside to experience Outpouring II.
Speaking of the public figure going down the tubes, Todd Bentley now carries the label of a liar and a deceiver. I’m sorry to mention it, but I felt personally deceived in the same way when Ted Haggard’s sin was exposed and he was immediately removed from ministry. In the Lakeland I case, I am elated at the way things are turning out. The Revival Alliance with whom Todd was aligned on June 23 has kicked into action with a vengeance. Ché Ahn and Bill Johnson, like me, were overseas when things broke, but John Arnott stepped up to the plate and moved in apostolically. It has since become clear that Todd’s Fresh Fire Board could not have handled the situation, Stephen Strader and Ignited Church could not, nor could any of his other close friends. Only the Revival Alliance could. I am delighted that they are not buying into typical charismatic soft morality, also called “greasy grace” or “don’t touch God’s anointed” or “mercy must triumph over judgment,” phrases that have been used on other similar occasions as convenient religious cop-out excuses. They’re proceeding in love, but it is tough love..
Since this is an update, I will share some of what I know about what is happening with Bentley, but not all because some things need more verification and it is up to discernment of Revival Alliance what and when this will be revealed. Suffice it to say that there is more than I am going to mention.
First of all, Todd has been removed from public ministry until further notice. He has resigned from the ministry he founded, Fresh Fire, so he is no longer a part of that board. It has become clear that he indulged in periodic drunkenness. He has no intention at the moment of reconciling with Shonna, nor does she with him. Their marriage has been torn for years by his emotional attachment with at least one other female whose physical contact went beyond hugging and kissing and holding hands. Enough said-maybe more details will be revealed later-but it was clearly immoral. All of this was skillfully concealed by lying and by swearing close associates who had observed his behavior to secrecy. Stephen Strader, for example, knew nothing of this before June 23. Apparently some of his board members did, but they did not have the ability to deal with it.
The Past
I hope this is the last time I will have to address the past. It is now history. But as history is written, I feel that I have some responsibility of helping to have history be written accurately, especially since I have turned out to be a lightening rod for a number of severe criticisms.
Most of you know this, but let me reiterate to keep it on record. Previous to around the middle of June, my interest in Lakeland was about a 2 on a scale of 1-10. Then I got a call from Stephen Strader, the host pastor who was a member of ICA, which I lead, with a passionate appeal for apostolic intervention because chaos and confusion had begin to invade the Outpouring I. Toward the end of the hour we were talking, I received one of my infrequent direct words from God: “Alignment!” Just one word, but I knew I had a divine command and responsibility.
Once I knew that God had assigned me to initiate some sort of apostolic intervention at Stephen’s side, I began praying and consulting with close colleagues. In less than two days I discovered that Todd Bentley had no formal, established apostolic alignment. I asked God how I should proceed, especially since I had no inclination to attempt an apostle-evangelist approach and expect that Bentley would submit to or even listen to what I had to say if I made an appointment with him in Lakeland. I felt that proper apostolic protocol would be for me to deal with one or more peer-level apostles to whom Todd had aligned apostolically. Since as yet he had no such alignment, I began asking God how such an alignment might come about. He directed me to my close friend, Ché Ahn, who himself is apostolically aligned with me and who also had been close to Bentley for years. Ché agreed that the best apostolic protocol would be for Todd to align with the Revival Alliance if he were willing. Ché called him and Bentley agreed to submit publicly to the Revival Alliance.
At this point some disagreements arose. I have already mentioned that I was consulting with several apostolic colleagues whom I trusted and whom I know trusted me. It is very necessary for us to understand exactly what the disagreement was about. It was about the most appropriate apostolic protocol for the occasion. After prayerfully listening to the different points of view with careful consideration of what was being said, the decision had to be mine. I believe that God’s word to me about “Alignment!” had to be directional. I concluded that the best protocol was to do the alignment first, then deal with the issues that had been raised. My other friends disagreed and urged me to deal with Todd’s problems first then do the alignment. I respected their point of view and I was very sorry that I had to follow God’s leading for me personally instead of taking their advice. It was not a comfortable decision.
Now let me address what was behind much of their disagreement with my apostolic protocol.
They were concerned that if I appeared on the platform with GOD TV, many viewers would interpret it as my personal endorsement of everything that was going on in Lakeland I, and since they were so closely associated with me, they would be implicated as well. This was a legitimate concern, and one I seriously wrestled with as I made my decision. If I went to Lakeland and presided over the alignment, some might well take it as an endorsement. It was a risk, I knew. Let me say personally that all my life I have been a risk-taker instead of a play-it-safe person, and I have taken many hits for it. As an example going to the jungles of Bolivia as a career field missionary when I was 25 with my wife and a one-year-old baby girl was a serious risk. Both that daughter and another who was born in the jungle without medical attention came close to losing their lives during those five years. And we were criticized for our decision to take the risk by many, including parents!
Closer to the Lakeland I situation, I have a private list of no fewer than 18 high-profile Christian leaders starting from the 1970s until Bentley for whom I took risks. For each one of them I took serious criticisms and in some cases personal hits even much more serious than I have received in this current case because I endorsed or partnered with or provided alignment for them. Some were typified as “crazy!” However, I can pretty much discern winners, although not always. My track record for the 18 is 72% emerged as real winners (you would know most of them), 17% ended up losers (including Bentley), and 11% indecisive. I’m sorry for the losers, but they prove I am not perfect. The point I am making is that I am no stranger to taking risks and living with the fallout.
One fallout from Lakeland I is that several have resigned from ICA and other organizations that I lead because they no longer want to be identified with me. Others are still upset.
I want it understood that I did not go to Lakeland on June 23 for Todd Bentley. I had never met him personally. I had no knowledge of and little interest in his ministry. I went because I received an apostolic plea to help bring order to the confusion and chaos that was sweeping through the body of Christ worldwide because of the television. I went strictly for the body of Christ at the invitation of the host pastor of the Outpouring I.
The final question is: Was it successful? Looking back, I praise God for using me and others to help bring order to confusion, which is one of the chief biblical tasks of an apostle. Stephen Strader, who has been keeping records, affirms that the evil that the prince of the power of the air had been subtly introducing into the Outpouring I started to be exposed and unraveled the day after the alignment, June 24!
Spiritually, this is very understandable. Just about every leader I knew had discerned that Lakeland I was a mixture of the godly and the ungodly. We were praying in one accord that the evil would be separated from the good. My take is that God had decided to answer these prayers and in order to facilitate His process, He assigned me and the Revival Alliance leaders and others who were with us to align Todd Bentley apostolically for the first time in his life. When we did this publicly, spiritual transactions took place in the invisible world that would not allow the enemy to maintain the veil of secrecy he had carefully placed over the Outpouring. The evil was exposed, Revival Alliance had the authority to deal with it, and the net result is that order is replacing chaos in the body of Christ.
In my section above on “The Present” I gave you some details. Believe me, they are only the tip of the iceberg as I just learned from a new phone call even as I was writing this paper. The proper apostolic structure, happily, is in place at the time of crisis!

The Future
It is now important to recognize that from now on we have a different playing field. Two separate things are going on. (1) The Revival Alliance is dealing with Todd Bentley and the fallout from his sin that has been and continues to be exposed. (2) I have told you previously about a group of 11 apostles that I have formed into the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team. We no longer need to deal with Lakeland I and Bentley as such. However, we have a list of 24 serious issues that have emerged from that unpleasant experience which need to be thoroughly discussed with the conclusions circulated in the body of Christ. If you have seen Dutch Sheets’ recent “A Statement and Appeal Regarding Lakeland” you will get a glimpse of some of the things that we agree need to become standard operational beliefs and practices, particularly in our charismatically-inclined evangelical segment of the church.
It will take time, but our Apostolic Team will get to work on the 24 issues after some of this present dust settles, and we will be back to you!

*****************

And Bill Johnson’s Before and After Todd Bentley’s “emotional affair” statements

Before. (Someone sends Bill Johnson and email asking why he would endorse Todd Bentley)

After it comes out about Todd Bentley having an affair with another women and drinking problem

Pt. 1 of 3

Pt 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPFFTzAaQFU

Pt 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoeIfOAAb7A

***************************

You think the Lord KNEW what was going on with Todd Bentley all along? Why would God tell C. Peter Wagner “Alignment” knowing that Todd was involved in an immoral sin (and idolatry with following demonic angels such as Emma, Promise, Winds of Change, etc and not testing the spirits to see if they are of God) and others were helping keep it secret?

1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife.

1 Cor 5:2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

1 Cor 5:3 ¶ For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.

1 Cor 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,

1 Cor 5:5 {I have decided} to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor 5:6 ¶ Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump {of dough?}

1 Cor 5:7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are {in fact} unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

1 Cor 5:8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

1 Cor 5:9 ¶ I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

1 Cor 5:10 I {did} not at all {mean} with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

1 Cor 5:11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one.

I don’t think these guys actually heard from God at all. They are trying to play politics. We have seen this stuff in our own country’s government officials when corruption was exposed. This is no different. Aligning Todd Bentley with these guys apostolically was not going to help Todd with the sin he was practicing much less the body of Christ. The bible tells us to expose the darkness not “align” ourselves with it.

Eph 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;

Eph 5:2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

Eph 5:3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

Eph 5:4 and {there must be no} filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Eph 5:6  Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them;

Eph 5:8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light

Eph 5:9 (for the fruit of the Light {consists} in all goodness and righteousness and truth),

Eph 5:10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.

Eph 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

Eph 5:12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.

Eph 5:13 But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.

Eph 5:14 For this reason it says, “Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you.”

Eph 5:15 Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise,

Eph 5:16 making the most of your time, because the days are evil.

Eph 5:17 So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

God wouldn’t lead his people into such a thing. Nor would God be a part of tricking His people into believing that Todd Bentley was carrying the presence of God and imparting HIS anointing while secretly sinning. This is unholy. We cannot mix what is profane with the holy. Ministering in the Spirit is holy. To have the full measure of the Spirit like Jesus had requires godly character and denying the lusts of the flesh and all sin. Not distort God’s ways through aligning up with such people who are found as liars, deceivers, and immoral. Todd should have conceded when these men decided to come and support him in the fear of the Lord rather than deceive them. But these men who claim to be leaders are not walking in the Spirit otherwise God would have alerted them to what was going on with Todd Bentley for the safety of His flock. This should be a lesson for us all to get know God for ourselves and stop looking to men for spiritual experiences or to know God…That was the purpose of God giving us the Holy Spirit so we could know Him personally for our selves. To know the Truth and walk in His ways and not in the ways of deceived men. Everyone involved should be repenting to God and the Body of Christ for their horrible leadership and not being in the position they ought to be in as supposed “leaders of the church”  who didn’t protect the sheep but fed them to wolves and hirelings to be plundered and spiritually molested.

2 Chr 7:14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Its time to repent and turn to the Lord and hope he will be gracious and merciful to us and forgive us our tresspasses. Not play politics. Everyone who endorsed Todd Bentley are deceivers and they need to come clean and get right with God and stop hiding behind their positions, titles, reputations, and organizations. These things just distort the true image of the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the one whose ways have been perverted by these same leaders. They want the Body of Christ to trust them and support them then they need to get honest and repent in sincerity and truth. Its not about them anymore. Its about being conformed to the image of Christ and rightly representing Him according to HIS standard and pattern. Not the “christ” they have created in their own image that manipulates and distorts the true character of our God in Jesus Christ. We don’t want their perverted christ. We want THE CHRIST who is THE TRUTH. You know the One who said “not my will but yours be done.” The One who gave his life as a ransom for many. Are any of you supposed “leaders” willing to give your life as a ransom for many? Are you willing to get out from under the alliances of deceived men. Men who pervert the ways of God to their own destruction. Men who only care about protecting their own investments rather than HIs investment, His people.

John 10:1 I ASSURE you, most solemnly I tell you, he who does not enter by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way (elsewhere, from some other quarter) is a thief and a robber.

John 10:2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

John 10:3 The watchman opens the door for this man, and the sheep listen to his voice {and} heed it; and he calls his own sheep by name and brings (leads) them out.

John 10:4 When he has brought his own sheep outside, he walks on before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.

John 10:5 They will never [on any account] follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not know the voice of strangers {or} recognize their call.

John 10:6 Jesus used this parable (illustration) with them, but they did not understand what He was talking about.

John 10:7 So Jesus said again, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that I Myself am the Door for the sheep.

John 10:8 All others who came [as such] before Me are thieves and robbers, but the [true] sheep did not listen to {and} obey them.

John 10:9 I am the Door; anyone who enters in through Me will be saved (will live). He will come in and he will go out [freely], and will find pasture.

John 10:10 The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have {and} enjoy life, and have it in abundance (to the full, till it overflows).

John 10:11 I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd risks {and} lays down His [own] life for the sheep.

John 10:12 But the hired servant (he who merely serves for wages) who is neither the shepherd nor the owner of the sheep, when he sees the wolf coming, deserts the flock and runs away. And the wolf chases {and} snatches them and scatters [the flock].

John 10:13 Now the hireling flees because he merely serves for wages and is not himself concerned about the sheep [cares nothing for them].

John 10:14 I am the Good Shepherd; and I know {and} recognize My own, and My own know {and} recognize Me–

John 10:15 Even as [truly as] the Father knows Me and I also know the Father–and I am giving My [very own] life {and} laying it down on behalf of the sheep.

Richard Taylor on Bill Johnson and those so called Prophets

You can check out Richard Taylor’s website here http://www.richardtaylor.org.uk/Site/Welcome.html

An Apology from Dutch Sheets on behalf of the Charismatic church leaders to the Body of Christ

NOTE:  While we cannot truly endorse the ministry of Dutch
Sheets, this is the first real Apology that has come out of that
camp – and as such it is refreshing and well worth publishing.

A STATEMENT and APPEAL REGARDING LAKELAND
-Dutch Sheets. (Aug 21, 2008).

It has now been a couple of weeks since I heard about Todd
Bentley’s plans for separation and divorce. Like everyone, I have
had a variety of emotions including anger, sadness, and grief.
Every time I see this scenario repeated, I grieve: for the husband
and wife involved; for the family that will be scarred in so many
ways; because of the incredible reproach it brings to Christ; and
the distortion it gives concerning God’s heart and ways. I am
praying for Todd and his family.

I was asked numerous times to write my position on Lakeland
while it was happening, but always felt checked by the Lord—the
waters were too muddy and emotions too high. I now feel strongly
that the Lord wants me to do so. It will be arguably one of the
greatest risks of my ministry to date, but one I feel must be taken.
Fathers, when given the voice to do so, bear the responsibility of
giving correction and wisdom. I hope mine qualifies for the latter. I
assure you I have spent many hours praying and thinking through
the situation. The risks are broad: with some of my dearest friends
and co-laborers, I risk harming those relationships; with many in
the charismatic body of Christ, I risk appearing to be an arrogant,
“self-appointed” spokesperson for them; to the “I told you so” crowd,
I risk the accusation of “spinning” the situation. (As far as the
heresy hunters and revival police—not those who raised legitimate
questions about Lakeland, but the attack dogs who make their
living and build their ministries criticizing everyone else—I lost
respect for them long ago and couldn’t care less what they think.)

My purpose and sincere prayer in writing this statement, however,
is three-fold: to see healing begin for the body of Christ; to initiate
a process that can remove the reproach brought to Christ and the
Church; and to do these things while preserving and honoring my
current relationships. I pray that these desires, along with my heart,
come through loudly. And I hope I’m writing this with true humility—
who among us clearly sees all hidden in our own hearts? Let me
also preface this statement by saying that what needs to be said
cannot be done quickly or carelessly. I do not want my heart to be
missed and am not willing to run that risk for the sake of brevity,
so please bear with the length. (Incidentally, I think it will be
obvious no one involved in the Lakeland situation has asked me to
write this; and for the sake of integrity on my part, none have been
consulted concerning what I’m stating.)

Mistakes at Lakeland

Did leaders handling the Lakeland situation make mistakes? Yes—
huge mistakes. Beyond the obvious fruit of salvations and healings,
can good come from Lakeland, as some have suggested, even
with the recent revelations concerning Todd Bentley? Yes, but only
if there is complete honesty and transparency, the removal of all
attempts at self-preservation, and absolute humility from all sides.

Did I endorse the Lakeland meetings? No, I did not, nor did I
condemn them. I acknowledged that healings were occurring and
some were being saved, which I still believe and rejoice over. I
realized and stated that the thousands of people attending were
hungry and sincere, as were those involved in leading the 2
meetings. The worship was regularly good. But looking past some
of the immediate and positive results, I, like many, also looked
ahead to the possible fruit from questionable doctrine and
experiences, exaggeration and hype, youthful pride, character
issues and the frightening potential of a 32 year “young” man
leading a movement that could shape the future of the Church.

These things were frightening, very frightening, to others and me.
When something has the potential of setting precedent, birthing a
movement and being reproduced as a prototype, we are no longer
simply endorsing good brothers, good intentions and miracles.
Doctrine and foundations will be built on these events. Teachings
and paradigms for future ministries will be formed—in short, the
next generation of the church and the move of God in the earth
could be greatly impacted. This is why I stopped short of endorsing
everything at Lakeland. Just as importantly, I could not ignore the
“check”, the uneasiness, the sickening feeling deep in my spirit
telling me something else was wrong—terribly wrong—in this
situation. Like other leaders I tried to push past my uneasiness
with the showmanship, the “bams,” the head butts and kneeing,
along with certain experiences and doctrines, all in order to
embrace the good. Like many of my friends I tried to be—and
believe I was—gracious, accepting, ready to think “out of the box”,
etc. But try as I may, the uneasiness in my spirit just wouldn’t leave.

Did I voice my concerns to the appropriate people? Yes,
including stating my concerns for Todd’s marriage to the Lakeland
Outpouring Apostolic Team. Did they listen? Some did, some
didn’t. But I want to state emphatically, this is not an “I told you
so” statement. In fact, much of what I want to address goes back
several years into our charismatic Christian history. And I assure
you that concerning our present weaknesses in the charismatic
church, there is plenty of blame to go around. Personally, I’ve
been right at times with my discernment and decisions, wrong at
others. It would be worse than hypocritical for me to point the
finger of accusation—I have no stones of judgment to throw.
Nonetheless, mistakes were made and must be acknowledged
and learned from in order for us to heal, grow and move forward.

Some of my closest friends endorsed and participated in the
Lakeland meetings. For them I have both criticism—all of us lose
credibility at this point if we’re not completely honest—and
affirmation. Should they have been more discerning and have
listened to the warnings they received? Obviously. Should those
who “aligned” Todd with spiritual fathers (which was a good thing
and positioned him to receive help if he chooses to accept it) have
realized to do so publicly was a mistake and could be interpreted
by those watching in no other way than as a complete
endorsement? Yes, they should have, especially when the event
became a commissioning ceremony, complete with decrees and
prophecies of going to higher levels, predictions of Todd’s
increasing world-wide influence and leading a world-wide revival,
emphatic and prolific endorsements of his character, etc. How
could those watching believe the evening was anything but an
aligning, endorsing and commissioning ceremony? It was. It really
doesn’t matter who laid their hands on Todd—all share
responsibility. This was unwise at best, naïve at least and at its
worst, foolish. And should the leaders involved have realized that
those of us connected to them relationally, ministerially, and as
movements—some even in alignment with them apostolically and
as sons and daughters—would feel minimalized, if not betrayed,
by the fact that they were in essence taking us onto the stage
with them? Yes. These feelings were inevitable, especially when
we had such uneasiness and asked them not to. Should there be
an acknowledgment of these mistakes to the body of Christ for the
sake of accountability and in order to rebuild trust? I believe so,
and remain hopeful this will happen.

With such strong statements of disagreement, what is the
affirmation toward my friends who led, participated in or endorsed
this ceremony (and the meetings in general)? Simply stated,
I know their hearts. It is not a contradiction of my criticisms
toward some of their actions to, at the same time, defend and
endorse their hearts and character. It is completely appropriate —
when true—to defend a person’s heart and integrity while
disagreeing with their actions.

I think the blunder of that night was huge and very damaging to the
body of Christ, but I also realize that in their hearts, those involved
honestly felt they were doing the right things. Again, while not
defending the action taken, I would defend the character and
integrity of Peter and Doris Wagner as vigorously as anyone I
know, and do so with absolute confidence. There are no two
people, and I mean that literally, who embody the qualities of
humility, integrity, holiness (no compromise!), sacrifice, unselfish
kingdom-thinking, the tireless giving of themselves to Christ’s
cause and the body of Christ—and do I need to add risk-taking?—
as much as Peter and Doris Wagner. It remains my great honor to
be associated with them and call them a spiritual father and
mother. And again, while not minimizing or “sweeping under the
rug” any wrong decisions, I remain steadfast in my belief that
similar affirmations could be made of others involved—either
directly or indirectly—in the ceremony. And some of them still see
their endorsing of Lakeland as an endorsement of revival generally,
not of Todd personally.

The Bigger Picture

It may come as a surprise, however, that my real purpose in
writing this is not to only state the above, as important as I believe
saying it is. My primary purpose, and I believe my assignment
from the Lord, is to identificationally repent on behalf of the
leadership of the charismatic body of Christ (see Nehemiah 1:4-7;
Daniel 9:1-19). In doing so, I do not have a pompous, “no one else
will, so I’ll do it” attitude, nor am I arrogant enough to think I have
become the spokesperson for the charismatic church. But in the
same way that I can identify with the racism of white predecessors
and repent to blacks, Native Americans and other races, I can
represent the leadership of the charismatic body of Christ and
identificationally repent for our sins and weaknesses. I encourage
leaders who find my statements true and appropriate to join me.

Beyond the simple fact of it being appropriate, I firmly believe it is
the only way to begin the process of rebuilding trust with those
asked to follow us and to remove the cynicism of the world we ask
to listen to us. As you know, regaining credibility is much more
difficult than attaining credibility. Concerning what I’m about to say,
I don’t believe I have a critical spirit, nor do I want to diminish the
sacrifices, faithfulness, and hard work done by so many in ministry.
The fact remains, however, that we have failed the Lord and His
people in many ways—not just with Lakeland but in countless
other situations—and must repent if we are to be trusted in the
future. And as you also know, no repentance is effective if watered
down and couched in excuses, therefore, I intend to be brutally honest:

1) We, the leaders of the charismatic community, have operated in
an extremely low level of discernment. Frankly, we often don’t even
try to discern. We assume a person’s credibility based on gifts,
charisma, the size of their ministry or church, whether they can
prophesy or work a miracle, etc. (Miracles and signs are intended
to validate God and His message, not the messenger; sometimes
they validate the assignment of an individual, but never the
person’s character, lifestyle or spiritual maturity.) We leaders in
the Church have become no different than the world around us in
our standards for measuring success and greatness. This has
contributed to the body of Christ giving millions of dollars to
undeserving individuals; it has allowed people living in sin to
become influential leaders—even to lead movements, allowing
them influence all the way to the White House. Through our lack
of discernment we built their stages and gave them their platforms.
We have been gullible beyond words—gullible leaders producing
gullible sheep. When a spiritual leader we’re connected with
violates trust, is exposed for immorality or falls below other
accepted standards of behavior, it does not exonerate us simply
to say we don’t condone such behavior. Those we lead trust us to
let them know whom to trust. We have failed them miserably in
this regard. For this lack of discernment, and for employing and
passing on inappropriate standards of judgment, I repent to the
Lord and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

2) We, the leaders of the charismatic church, spin our involvement
and fail to acknowledge our responsibility when other leaders fall—
all of which stems from our self-preservation and pride. Enough of
the spin—we’re no different than Washington, DC. Every time
another embarrassing and disgraceful situation is exposed, the
dancing begins. It seems that no one bears any real responsibility
except the man or woman who actually commits sin. Incredibly,
we even blame “revival” itself—the pressures, attacks, weariness,
the “revival is messy” argument, etc., saying it is responsible for
the failures. This is disgusting. Those of us on boards of fallen
leaders, those who helped give them a voice, put them on TV,
published and endorsed their books (yes, I have), etc., are not
exonerated simply by saying we don’t condone the wrong behavior
or that we didn’t know. We’re supposed to know. I don’t believe
anyone is expecting perfection from us—I know I’m not. We’re far
too human for that. But we are expected to have enough humility
to look the world and those who follow us in the eye when we miss
it and say, “we were wrong and we are sorry.” Our careless
accountability has caused the body of Christ to be spiritually
raped and abused. It has produced disillusionment and brought
immeasurable reproach to our God and cynicism to His message.
Concerning Lakeland, what was called the “greatest revival since
Azusa Street” has become possibly one of the greatest
reproaches. We, the leaders of the charismatic church, are
responsible. For not accepting and acknowledging our
responsibility, for caring more about our own reputation than
Christ’s, I repent to God and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

3) Our procedures and standards of accountability are incredibly
inadequate. We have provided camaraderie, not biblical
accountability. For those on Todd Bentley’s board who had
previous knowledge of his marriage problems and said nothing, it
was more than a mistake—it was reckless, foolish, and
irresponsible. For those on the stage the night of his aligning and
commissioning who knew and said nothing—ditto. For those there
who didn’t know, my question is, “why didn’t you?” You were
trusted to know. That is one of the purposes of public
commissioning and the purpose behind the concept of
endorsement. I’m not trying to point the finger; I’m endeavoring to
get us to be honest about our failures—we have serious credibility
issues. Have I ever laid hands on, commissioned or endorsed
anyone without adequately checking them out? Yes, but you
better believe I’ll be more careful next time! And we must not
single out Lakeland. We’re all guilty. What about the leader in my
city who ran with some of the leading spiritual fathers in our nation—
sincere and good men, I might add, and not all “charismatic”
leaders—who sang his praises and helped build his stage—all
while he was doing drugs and having sex with other men? But we
shouldn’t blame only the high profile cases—what about those of
us who unknowingly have had adulterers on our staffs or appointed
elders that turned out to have compromise in their life? Sounding
familiar yet? This is so epidemic that every member of the body of
Christ stands guilty—what pastor or leader did you follow that
turned out to have sin issues? What ministry did you support that
was unworthy? There is plenty of blame to go around. The big
question becomes not “who do we blame” but “how do we fix this
mess?” Leaders can live in sin—adultery, homosexuality, financial
wrongdoing, drugs, etc.—for years without it being realized. They
can offer completely unacceptable lifestyles for the body of Christ
to follow and still keep their TV programs and lavish lifestyles. In
the name of grace, compassion and forgiveness we have lowered
the standard so much that often there isn’t one. We have bought
into the lie that true discipline is “shooting our wounded.” We have
made a mockery of biblical restoration, making “ministry”—not
healthy individuals, marriages and families—its ultimate goal. The
fact is, integrity matters. No, we don’t need legalistic, pharisaical
standards, but we must have standards. For this lack of biblical
accountability, I repent to God and I ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

4) We, the leaders of the charismatic church, have built on hype,
sensation, innovation, programs, personality and charisma. This
has produced: shallowness; false movements; novice leaders—
gifted but immature and untested; a deficient understanding of
God’s word; the building of man-centered rather than kingdom-
centered churches and ministries; competition rather than
cooperation; humanistic, self-centered Christians who don’t
understand sacrifice and commitment; Christians without
discernment; superstar leaders; a perverted and powerless gospel;
prayerless and anemic Christians; a replacement of the fear of the
Lord with the fear of man; and a young generation that is cynical
of it all. We are responsible, not the devil; he takes what we give
him. For this compromise in the way we build, for giving the
Church watered down wine, commercial Christianity, a flashy but
weak Church and hype disguised as anointing, I repent to God and
ask forgiveness of the body of Christ. Galatians 6:1-5 is an
appropriate reference with which to end this statement: “Brethren,
even if a man caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual,
restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to
yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens,
and thus fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is
something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each
one examine his own work, and then he will have reason for
boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
For each one shall bear his own load.” NAS

My passionate prayer is that God honors this repentance — I
believe He led me to do it and therefore, will—and uses it to begin
a process of cleansing and healing for all of us. In order for the
coming great awakening to bear maximum fruit we must have both,
as well as a course correction that sets us on a path of wisdom
leading to life. There is no doubt that past moves of God have been
aborted, ended prematurely and contained error or heresy that
have wounded, if not destroyed, many. The healing revival of the
40’s and 50’s, the charismatic movement, discipleship movement
and Jesus movement are all examples. My heart is to help shape
a movement, the fruit of which will last for decades — better yet,
forever. And I have great expectations for us—I am not a cynic.

My passionate prayer is also that Todd Bentley’s marriage survives
and thrives…that he turns his heart fully toward Christ and toward
those with whom he is aligned, and allows them, as God leads,
to put him on a path of complete restoration. I thank God for those
who were touched by the Holy Spirit at Lakeland and while
watching it on God TV and the web. May we all move forward into
all God has planned for us in this awesome season of endless
possibility.

With great hope—Dutch Sheets.

~SOURCE:  http://www.dutchsheets.org/index.cfm

New Mystics~The New Breed

 

TODD BENTLEY’S PASTOR Patricia King – New Mystics ~ The New Breed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyW3GlgpN58

PATRICIA KING – New Mystics ~ The New Breed ~ (The Word Mystic means: Shaman, sage, medium spiritualist, magic, paranormal), mystical presence of their god.

Ps 82:1

“God standeth in the assembly of God.” God is among his people; and he presides especially in those courts of justice which himself has established. The Court of King’s Bench is properly the place where the king presides, and where he is supposed to be always present.

Beware what you do! God is in his court, and in the midst (of the assembly) God will judge!

Are WAGNER’s APOSTLES LEAVING??

Are WAGNER’s APOSTLES LEAVING??
-Andrew Strom.

Last week we published a number of strong statements against
Lakeland by one of Peter Wagner’s ‘apostles’ named Robert
Ricciardelli. For those who are not aware, Peter Wagner heads
up an organization devoted to setting in place “apostles” over the 
church. This is known as the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ (NAR),
and it has been very controversial. I myself have never seen it as
any kind of true “Reformation” – because all it seems to do is
set up another level of hierarchy over the existing ones. I also
question whether many of the “apostles” are true apostles – but
that is another story. Suffice it to say, that Wagner runs one of 
the most powerful and far-reaching global networks in the
Charismatic world.

I don’t know if Peter Wagner fully realized what he was doing
when he went down to Lakeland and publicly endorsed Todd
Bentley and the ‘revival’ there. But clearly he started a rift in his
own movement that may very well almost tear it apart.

However, before we discuss this further, it is also important to
note that even some “pro-Lakeland” churches are beginning to
have second thoughts about supporting that movement – as more
factual information begins to emerge about what is really going on.

The following was written by the leader of a “pro-Lakeland” church –
and forwarded to me this week. (I have removed the identity of
both the leader and the church). This really is an amazing
admission for such a “pro-Lakeland” leader to make:

“Hi staff,
We need to talk, probably as a staff, and go through what I’ve
found out. I had a long talk with Robert Ricciardelli. He’s no revival
critic… He loves revival, believes in healing, prophecy and all the
rest and is delighted to hear about the healings we’ve had here.
He’s a close friend of Stephen Strader… He’s in an accountability
relationship with Lee Grady (editor of Charisma Magazine) and is
a writer for Charisma on occasion. He’s part of C. Peter Wagner’s
apostolic network, recognized by Peter as an apostle. I’ve seen
the man’s website and he’s legit, not a heresy hunter.

“The reports he has given me are firsthand, not hearsay. I am
deeply troubled, grieved and tormented at what I’m hearing. He
attributes most of the anointing at Lakeland to Roy Fields (worship
leader). I agree. Roy is nothing but clean and God shows up hugely
when he leads worship. I can go into detail later about what is
surfacing, but there are huge lapses of integrity going on… Much
embellishment. Many claims have been made that simply are not
true. The Charisma crew has researched it. I want to weep. My
heart is breaking. For now, to be safe and for the sake of integrity,
we need to stop speaking about the claimed resurrections. Three
of them have been checked out with the doctors and EMTs
involved and found never to have happened at all. Todd has been
confronted with this and has not adjusted the numbers in his
claims. Not a single one of the other claimed resurrections can
be substantiated despite diligent effort to do so. Even after
Stephen Strader brought it down to 13 (and even those couldn’t
be substantiated) Todd ran it back up to 27 and more.
Misrepresentation and embellishment!

“On the financial front, Todd recently told the crowd that God had
told him that there were 1,000 people who would give $1,000 and
that they would be blessed 1,000-fold. Robert called Stephen
Strader to confront the unbiblical nature of that appeal. It came
out that Todd admitted he hadn’t heard that from God, that it was
just an idea he had so that they could raise money to build a big
stadium. Robert challenged them to issue an apology the following
night based on that false claim of being told by God and they
refused to do it on the excuse that it’s a different crowd every night.

“That’s the flavor of what I’m finding. There’s a lot more. I’m so
grieved I can hardly think. I’m not saying the Lakeland Outpouring
is not of God (God is bigger than the men involved), although good
men whom I have respected all my life are saying just that (that it’s
not of God), based on what they know and have seen…

“What I am saying is that we need to back up and not identify
ourselves closely with Lakeland and that we need to stop repeating
claims being made on the air lest we end up getting splattered
with the collateral damage when certain issues of false claims,
embellishments and lapses of integrity begin to come out more
publicly. By the way, no one is saying that some healings have not
happened – only that many false, embellished or unsubstantiated
claims have been made. A number of really good men, champions
of revival through the years, are actually saying that the whole
thing is of the devil and that even the healings are demonically
inspired. I want to be clear that I’m not going there…” [-end quote].

So here we have a ‘pro-Lakeland’ church checking out these facts
for the first time and now deciding that they “need to back up and
not identify ourselves closely with Lakeland.” Pretty amazing!

Meanwhile – back to the topic of “apostles” and what is now
happening in Peter Wagner’s main ‘ICA’ organization:

One of Wagner’s apostles, Robert Ricciardelli, put out an email
this week saying that he has received a great deal of support for
his stand against Lakeland – the majority of it from pastors. And
he also made the following very significant statement:

“As a member of ICA, Peter Wagner actually caused many
questions to come my way because of my membership there.
I will no longer be involved with that organization and actually
have not tracked well with them and some of their agendas since
I have been involved with them. However, I have enjoyed the many
relationships I have developed from going to the annual meetings.
Most all of those relationships are also disengaging from their
affiliation with ICA, because of many issues beyond Lakeland.”

So clearly Robert is now leaving the ICA – as are other ‘apostles’
that he knows of also. I asked him to clarify this last point.

Robert wrote to me:
“The ICA leadership continues to adopt belief systems without
seeking the advice and counsel of members. Many of the members
do not, and will not support these beliefs, including the support of
anti-biblical behavior and doctrine currently being expressed through
Todd Bentley and Freshfire Ministries. In fact as ICA embraces
this, they now have taken a stance that will indirectly have to
embrace many of the same ministries, including “New Mystic”
John Crowder and others. This escalating focus on angels,
experiences, trances, etc is far from the focus of Jesus, His
Kingdom, and His righteousness… Many of us who really enjoyed
the ICA annual conferences are now forced to make a decision
as to whether to continue our involvement with them.”

Robert has also stated that he personally was never into
“Dominionist” beliefs or the “hierarchical NAR agenda.” His last
statement to me was: “I think that there is a chance that many
may disassociate with the ICA depending on Todd continuing to
reveal his deceptive doctrine and Peter continuing to support such doctrine.”

I wonder if Peter Wagner ever imagined that by endorsing Todd
Bentley he may be sowing huge seeds of destruction in his own
movement? -Perhaps only time will tell.

Patricia King endorses a Kundalini Trance dancing called Ekstasis Worship

  

Here we go again. Just when we couldn’t think things could get worse since the kundalini revival in Lakeland from guru Todd Bentley now we have being introduced to the body of Christ Kundalini dance. Yes you heard that right Kundalini dance. Patricia King is promoting a new “christian club” called “Club Mysterio” as well as endorsing DJ Caleb who instructs believers into “Ecstasis Worship”…What is Ecstasis Worship? Well basically it is pagan worship and dance. Here is what Patricia King says about Ekstasis Worship:

quote found at this link http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=message&task=view&MID=3B007E22&GroupID=CB0075KHave you ever heard of “Ekstasis Worship”? Many believers are discovering it, and one of the members of our itinerant ministry team, Caleb Brundidge, is bringing it to the Body of Christ.

  

In this video, Caleb and Patricia King share on “Ekstasis,” and how you can go beyond regular worship and enter into a place of body, soul and spirit where you feel freedom to dance and celebrate your love for Jesus Christ with an all new abandoned level of expression and experience.

Video can be seen at link below

http://www.extremeprophetic.com/videoplay.php?id=http://www.propheticmedia.com/video/video_email_media/2008/1_23_08_Weblist_CalebBrundidge_ClubMysterioHIGH.mp4

Here is another link where GodTube is also promoting DJCaleb and Club Mysterio with Ekstasis Worship…

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ba0c159192e5cb0e4b10

You can also read another christian blogger, Sola Dei Gloria, point of view about this new form of “worship” here http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/paganism-ekstasis-worship/

Also you can listen to an audio interview from Slice of Laodecia’s “Slice Cast” with Ingrid Schlueter and Discernment Ministries Jewel Grewe. There are audio clips from DJ Caleb about the ideology that is behind Club Mysterio and Ekstasis Worship and why it is pagan. They are also discussing the New Apostolic Reformation deceptions.

You can catch that audio here http://sliceoflaodicea.com/slicecast/

I also want to encourage you to check out Discernment Ministries website http://www.discernment-ministries.org/

They have a book available online called “Strange Fire: The Rise of Gnosticism in the Church”. You can see that here

http://www.discernment-ministries.org/StrangeFire1.htm

And I want to also add Deception Bytes article on Patricia King Encouraging demonic trance dancing called Ekstatis Worship here

http://deceptionbytes.com/PatriciaKing-Ekstasis

You can compare this christianized version of pagan practice of Ekstasis and what is being passed off as “Worship” with the pagans

Kundalini Dance of Ekstasis Trances here…

http://www.ekstasisdance.com/ AND http://www.kundalini-dance.com/kundalini-dance.html

I found a youtube video of a youtuber named mysticalerotica under the influence of Kundalini Yoga who calls this Kundalini/Chi pagan spirit, to an awakening of the “gods” within, the Holy Spirit…

Sounds much like what Todd Bentley, Patricia King, DJ Caleb and others like them speak in like manner…This video will have some demonic influences

so take caution to watching and listening to it…Here is this persons YouTube description of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAzDDEXcpmg

Itis time to wake up our bodies…to allow the Holy Spirit…the Kundalini, the Chi…to stir and inform our cellular levels.    At this time of the Second Comining…the Christ force itself actually penetrating our minds, feelings, bodies…we must slow down and dismantle the mechanisms of global numbing.

We must explore desire and its role in bringing God into our body…and practice infusing our body with the vibration of God.

It is time.

DJ Caleb said about Ekstasis Worship 

  

“This generation is hungry, hungry for the mysteries of God…This generation longs to experience God in a way, in an abandoned way like never before…They long to release their passions for God…When we are making decrees and we are praising God the music in your jumping and your dancing and your moving around well the words that were speaking becomes one at a cellular level in your body and its not like your learning it its part of who you are.. its no longer that you have to study the word but when your inside of a infused atmosphere with dancing and your body is moving and the word is coming and the music it becomes part of you…and its just like ah man with the rythm the sound and the repetiveness of the music the word is driven into your body not just your mind not just your soul but the whole mind, body and soul….Ekstasis Worship is worship that you go outside of your mind and just release yourself into abandoned worship of God go into the ecstacy of God…Club Mysterio is a place where you can come and experience Ekstasis Worship…”

Now the youtuber mysticalerotica doesn’t seem to be claiming they are a christian but that they are a spiritual teacher…it appears that they are into another religion or spirituality that is not christianity…But this person describes their kundalini awakening in their body “to stir and inform our cellular levels.” DJ Caleb speaks in the same likeness as this person mysticalerotica when he says “well the words that were speaking becomes one at a cellular level in your body”…Notice DJ Caleb is not talking about speaking forth the word of God but our own words “to stir and inform our cellular levels” to quote youtuber mysticaleroticia….Notice also that DJ Caleb also never mentioned our spirit or the Spirit of God in us…he says in reference to the affect of speaking our own words through the repetiveness of the music, jumping, and dancing drives our own words into our body not just your mind not just your soul (notice this) but the “whole mind, body, and soul.” 

The mind is part of our soul…the soul makes up the mind, the will, and the emotions….Also I found another website talking about Ecstatic Dance coming from Shamans..

Quote

Ecstatic experience is the oldest form of healing and spiritual practice known with evidence of it dating back over 30,000 years to ancient traditions of shamanism. It is believed that shamans were the first to discover and codify the use and power of rhythm through drumming, dancing, and chanting to carry them on their journeys into a world beyond the ordinary.

The “flight of ecstasy” is an anthropological term given to the shaman’s journey into these non-ordinary realms. In The World is as You Dream It, John Perkins introduces us to “dream change”, a translated term Ecuadorian shamans use to describe this flight of ecstasy and its purpose. The basic tenet of shamanism holds that our physical universe is an emanation, a protrusion, a dream, from this non-ordinary reality that is believed to be the source of all creation.

Dancing through a shamanic portal

Ecstatic dance, which is sometimes referred to as trance dance, is based on the tenets of shamanism and has been used for eons as a method for dream change. It’s a multi-layered experience that takes the dancer on an inner journey to connect him to other sources of guidance, activate abilities to re-invent him, or invite spirit or life force energy to embody and heal him. Actually, the term ’embody’ is a bit misleading, because this life force energy is within each of us, already. The demands, addictions, and over-rational beliefs of the modern world, however, have served to impede its flow and fragment this awareness away from us, taking with it other vital aspects of the self. Ecstatic dance helps restore this vital flow of life force and recover lost parts of the soul in the process. It is a way to re-member and activate the inherent shamanic archetype we each carry within our body-mind complex – an archetype that reveals our interconnections within the greater web of life and seeks to identify and consciously change the dreams that no longer serve our well-being.

Ecstatic dance is a form of active meditation or prayer where music, movement, and the breath are used to shift brain wave patterns from the day-to-day cognitive beta state, to the more meditative and insightful alpha state. The terms trance and altered state of consciousness refer to brain waves resonating at this alpha state, as well as theta and delta. Michael Harner has coined the term shamanic state of consciousness (SSC) to describe this level of awareness. The SSC is what the ecstatic dancer seeks, as well as the shaman, to initiate the dream change process.

Before entering an ecstatic dance journey, the dancer forms an intention for a particular dream change. When the dancer enters an SSC through the dance, the veils that appeared to separate the self into mind, body, and soul in ordinary reality are pulled away so that the dancer can experience herself and her intention at another level. In the landscape of the SSC, she feels an expanded sense of herself in communication with a greater source of being. She may experience her intention as already existing. This is because the SSC connects us with a more transcendent reality beyond the bounds of time and linear existence, as we know it. Not only do the veils that separate aspects of the self fall away, but also those that clearly differentiate past, present, and future. In ecstatic dance, the dream change we desire can be conceived as a pattern of energy that already exists which we then allow ourselves to entrain or resonate with.

With the music on, or drumming in the air, the dancer gently surrenders her body to the rhythms, allowing her movements to express and intuitively entrain to the energy of her intended dream change. The mind remains in a relaxed, yet attentive state, observing the process more than directing it. As the body moves within the SSC, a deeper wisdom begins to stir. … Hidden doors in the psyche open and information in the form of images, sensations, or insights related to the intention arise into conscious awareness, holographically. The dance then becomes a dialogue of sorts between the worlds; the body listening and responding to deeper cues and information through movement, while the mind makes note of journey imagery and interjects a telepathic question or comment now and then. The dance becomes not only a place to express one’s intention through movement, but also to listen for feedback and guidance on that intention from deeper sources of being.

It’s not unusual for ecstatic dance to open up into what people describe as a visionary experience of a mystical or spiritual nature. In these experiences, dancers report such things as communicating with spirit guides, animals, nature spirits, the earth, geometric shapes or symbols, or being immersed in a divine healing light or energy. Information gained in these experiences is frequently described as an instantaneous transmission or downloading of a large chunk of knowledge. Although it may take several pages in a journal to relay the information afterwards, it was all seen, learned, or realized within mere seconds. It also happens that specific information about your journey is not immediately available to you, but may take weeks or even months to rise into conscious awareness. It may take even longer to fully integrate this information into your life, so patience, reflection, diligence, and self-compassion are key. Information gained during ecstatic dance journeys can augment more traditional forms of therapy.

Ecstatic dance sees the body as a holy vessel of the spirit, a sacred kiva (a room used for religious rituals) where we can awaken our greatest talents, healing, and dream change abilities, oftentimes hidden from our sight for years. The dance then becomes a source of revelation and renewal. From this experience our whole being: body, mind, and soul, is honored as sacred and the work of beauty it is. There is a sense of profound sense of sovereignty and sanctity that comes when the body has a time and place to genuinely express this deeper wisdom of the self, without having our socialized sensibilities reprimand or censor its expression. This in itself can be incredibly transformational.

http://www.firetribehawaii.org/articles/ecstaticdance.shtml

Here is a quote from another website on Ecstatic dancing…

This is a call out to my sacred dancer kin in the Portland and Los Angeles area codes. As a promoter/participant with Ekstasis Dance (www.ekstasisdance.com) on behalf of my friend Luna Ravenchild I am putting it out there about an opportunity to partake in a weekend long intensive in Kundalini Dance(www.kundalini-dance.com). This form, a nice companion to Gabrielle Roth’s Ecstatic Dance continues Luna’s sacred dance facilitation which began with the 5 Rhythms. This system,synthesized in its modern form by Antara Decker, integrates awakening the kundalini and moving it through the chakra’s is melded with the sounds of the electronic underground. Accompanying Luna is her partner DJ Solus. Currently Luna is the sole facilitator of Kundalini Dance journeys in North America. 

Festival and event organizers we are also interested in continuing to bring Kundalini Dance shorter workshops to these environments and have done so at Journey of the Shaman (Oracle Gathering), Shambhala Festival (where it returns again this summer),Mage Festival, and the Intention Retreat. Please contact me for an info package. 

GodTV/Todd Bentley/Satanism Pt 1

Awesome audio discussing the real influences working through Todd Bentley and this so called “revival”

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=61008193588

Todd Bentley’s Supernatural Training Centre or Kundalini Yoga Training?

Todd Bentley’s “Supernatural Training Center” application in .pdf says on the front page..

  

Fresh Fire Ministries Presents 

The 2008/2009 Supernatural Training Centre Abbotsford, B.C..

 “Activate Your Divine Nature and Carry God’s Presence to the World!’

 I don’t have a divine nature apart from Jesus Christ. It is HIS divine nature I don’t have one. The scriptures say,

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 2 Pet 1:4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of {the} divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

 

Here is a quote from someone who talks about their Kundalini experience….

 The awakening of Kundalini is a spiritual awakening, a major step towards realization of the divine. According to Swami Prajananda, “The main purpose of its awakening in a seeker is to enable him to attain Godhood” (Muktananda, Kundalini 9). 

***********
It is the DNA activator. It is the next stage of evolution for man. I believe it is man’s hidden treasure that he lost when he “fell from grace” in the Garden of Eden. Now it is returning to this planet wakening beings to their full natures before the fall only even greater. It is the sacred tree of life. It is essentially however, the secret of realization of God, the divine essence within all beings.

http://www.aloha.net/~ruth/Kawake.html

 This person under the influence of the Kundalini spirit that wrote the quote above is attributing a demonic spirit, Kundalini, with the God of the Bible. The Kundalini spirit is trying to associate the workings of Kundalini  with the works of the christian God in the form of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God (Jesus) and the Tree of Life! The source of the Kundalini spirit is of the kingdom of darkness not the kingdom of God. In reality the Kundalini spirit and its wisdom is of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil NOT the Tree of Life.  Todd Bentley makes the statement that if one attends to their supernatural training centre they will be taught how to “activate THEIR divine nature”.  This is not the language of one who is being inspired by the Holy Spirit but one who is being influenced by satan who can transform himself into an angel of light for the purpose of deceiving christians to follow what is false and not of God as if it is of God and true. This kind of talk reminds me of pagan beliefs like Wicca that refer to the “god and goddess within you”…

 Wikipedia says this about the word Avatar.

 In English, the word has come to mean “an embodiment, a bodily manifestation of the Divine.” 

Avatara (Sanskrit: अवतार, IAST Avatāra) in Hindu philosophy is the ‘descent’ or incarnation of a divine being (deva) or the Supreme Being (God) onto planet Earth.

 Another website says this about what an Avatar is.

 An avatar is a bodily manifestation of a higher being or a supreme being.

It comes from Hindu mythology. Whenever something divine manifested in a physical form (normally human), it was called an avatar. 

 Another website said this about releasing your “inner goddess”

 Each of us will explore ways to give others in our lives and communitiespermission release the inner goddess, and become a beacon of light that liberates others.

 Wouldn’t an “avatar” and a “goddess” be considered “divine”? They would to a pagan or someone who was decieved and was under the influence of the Kundalini spirit. The Kundalini spirit is considered divine. The Kundalini spirit actually tries to convince people that it is the God of creation and of life. It works to deceive people to believe it has the ability to heal and transform a persons life. This kind of belief sounds similar to what the bible teaches what Jesus does through the work of the Holy Spirit in a person who accepts Christ. But the only problem is that it is not Jesus Christ but a false christ. It is a religious spirit feigning the Holy Spirit. Because if you read enough info on the Kundalini spirit you will see that it is said to be a Serpent that when not awakened is coiled at the base of the spine. 

Here is another quote from the above person about the Kundalini experience

 It is apparent now according to Lee Sannella, a psychiatrist who has written a seminal work on what he calls “a form of psychospiritual energy” ( 8) the Kundalini Shakti, that is a “process of psychospiritual transformation” that is found in human beings all over the world“transcending personal and cultural differences” (23). I was participating in a universal human experience of transcendence. According to Sannella’s research, Kundalini is integral to the teachings of “Tibetan Buddhism, Chinese Taoism,” some “American Indian tribes, and …even of the Bushmen of Africa.” It was “most carefully studied and conceptually elaborated” in Hindu India (8).

Although the word Kundalini may appear strange for many readers and the concept of it even incomprehensible to the Western mind, in fact it is closer to each person than his own heart. Kundalini is closer than the breath in the body for it is the breather and the breath. In its dormant form it is the very essence of all life. It is the basic energy of all motion and activity. The coiled Kundalini lies dormant from birth at the base of the spine in every individual until one day it is awakened, then it ascends through the spinal column and the subtle nerve channels of the subtle body cleansing and clearing blockages as it rises towards the crown…where it merges with the energy of the higher Self. This connects the individual to the cosmic energy source so she is no longer an isolated, separated entity, but a conduit of the divine cosmic force.

In the awakened form, this uncoiled force becomes the Kundalini depicted in Indian scriptures both as a Goddess of immense power, often called “Kundalini Shakti,” and as a snake or serpent. It is She who is the manifest universe, and when She wakens within an individual, She will sweep one up in Her tremendous passion to reunite with Her Lord, Shiva–the unmanifest –in order to dance once again in his arms. Thus begins a crazy, wonderful, unpredictable ride with Goddess where She rules the body, mind and soul as she ascends through the body to the crown of the head- the seat of Shiva.

 When people participate in the kundalini experience they are submitting to release the “divine” within them. But in the practice of Kundalini Yoga one is coming under the subjection of a demonic spirit that is in no way divine. Christians don’t seek to “Activate THEIR divine nature” because they do not have a divine nature. Christians partake of Christ’s divine nature. This philosophy of activating MY divine nature is pagan. I don’t think that Todd Bentley is actually under the influence of the Holy Spirit. By the fact that in this application for the 2008/2009 Supernatural Training Center school that one will be able to “Activate YOUR Divine Nature” doesn’t sound like something that Jesus Christ is sponsoring or Lord of but something that distorts the word of God to others all in the name of Jesus. But the apostle Paul said this,

2 Cor 11:12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.

2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers,disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

Gal 1:7 which is {really} not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Gal 1:10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

 If we accept the heresies that Todd Bentley teaches and instructs people in as if it is of the Spirit of God and are unwilling to separate ourselves from Todd Bentley’s counterfeit Christ influences then we are seeking to please men and not God just as the apostle Paul said in Galatians. And according to the apostle Paul if someone is preaching a gospel contrary to the true gospel of Christ, IF we did originally receive the true gospel, then that person who preaches a contrary gospel is accursed. I didn’t say Todd Bentley was accursed the bible says he is to be accursed since he preaches a gospel that is contrary to the true gospel of Christ Jesus. Further more if we support their false teachings as if it is okay becuause “no one is perfect” then we are in reality deserting Him who called us by the grace of God for a different gospel. 

 2 Cor 11:3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity {of devotion} to Christ.

2 Cor 11:4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear {this} beautifully.

 2 John 1:9-11

9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

 11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If someone calls themself a christian and doesn’t abide in the doctrine of Christ they don’t have the Father and the Son. And if we support them anyway then we are a partaker of their evil deeds. 

Handling Disunity? -Rick Warren’s Way

Here is another post from a man who, I believe, brings out what is in the hearts of these psuedo-church leaders who preach false doctrine and help spread it to the rest of the body of Christ…this is pure evil and not of God at all the kind of things being said to stop other believers from speaking the truth out that shines a light on their false teaching and their greedy hearts to hold these churches together and keep people in bondage to continue to support their demonic kingdoms passed off as “the kingdom of God”…It is quite disturbing but is a reality…

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Handling Disunity – Rick Warren’s Way

By Eric Barger

 

 

It figures that Rick Warren would unite with over 100 assorted liberals, heretics and confused Evangelicals in a love-letter calling for unity and common ground with Muslims. However, when dealing with dissenters who oppose his Purpose Driven philosophy and theology, it’s clearly his way or the highway.

 

In his November 14, 2007 directive to pastors, “What the Bible says about handling disunity” from his Pastor.com website, Warren outlines that “You’ve got to protect the unity of your church. If that means getting rid of troublemakers, do it.”

 

Disruptions and disagreements in the Body are unseemly. However, unity in the church at the expense of truth isn’t really unity at all. Likewise, troublemakers may actually be rescuers of the Church if the questions they raise and the opposition they bring are scripturally founded and aimed at restoring authentic biblical teaching and practices. But of course, we need to understand exactly what terms like “unity” and “troublemaker” refer to in Rick Warren’s universe.

 

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand what Warren means when he encourages leaders on how to deal with “dissenters” opposed to what he deems as “progress.” ToWarren, “disunity” refers to opposition to the new way to do church, in particular, the Purpose Driven way.

 

For example, Warren has clearly stated that those who insist on opposing his church transforming plan for growth are “problems.” He has joked about eliminating those of us stuck in what he considers the Stone Age by stating, “The pillars are only holding things up!” Warren claims that when those unwilling to change do leave a church that in reality it’s a “blessed subtraction.” Talk like this should be perceived as offensive. It is sad that so many only chuckle.

 

What Warren has accomplished in his short tenure as Secretary and Guru of Growth isn’t funny to a lot of people. To condescend about and encourage what amounts to the disenfranchisement of people who have poured their time, money and emotions into a church – for what appears to be the sake of selling more books and materials – is frankly sick. Though I’m sure it sounds cynical, when one considers the money that has changed hands to acquire Purpose Driven materials, it is to Warren’s advantage that any negative voices be made to appear foolishly out of step and silenced if possible. Encouraging the elimination and alienation of those who defy the growing Purpose Driven invasion when it comes knocking on their church doors is a key goal in Warren’s strategy. These dissenters are interfering with his version of unity. They are bad for business. They defy his obvious hunger for power and control. They are the troublemakers.

 

Warren begins his November 17 email by stating that the Bible speaks more about unity then of Heaven and Hell. Though I haven’t taken the time to count up the references yet, I am confident that this isn’t so. Let me ask, what about references insisting that we ministers hold to sound doctrine Rick? Does unity outweigh that too? It would appear so at least in Warrenessee. Warren concludes by telling his estimated 400,000+ readers that disunity is Satan’s greatest weapon against the Church. What? While it might be construed as progress that Rick Warren even acknowledges the existence of Satan, to espouse the notion that disunity is the Devil’s chief weapon is not just poor theology. It is a lie. Sins, such as greed and lust, are Satan’s greatest weapon against the Church. However, if Rick Warren is able to make these statements unchallenged then slothfulness and biblical ignorance are obviously gaining ground.

 

WHOEVER SAID THAT MINISTERS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT?

 

The Bible does warn those who cause division and give instructions on how to deal with them. However, as Paul wrote of this (see Titus 3) the supposition is that those in leadership are indeed theologically correct and acting biblically first. Again, no one wants dissention and division but unless a man named Martin Luther – a troublemaking dissenter – had caused the great stir and division which he brought about we might possibly never have broken the bondages and domination of Rome!

 

Luther’s Reformation was based on good theology. Warren’s announced quest for a “new reformation” is not. What Purpose Driven and Seeker proponents need to stop and consider before buying further into Warren’s folly is that Jesus warned us a whopping 14 times about religious leaders who would come and mislead. Pastors and leaders – yours truly included – can be mistaken. Does Jesus expect us to unquestionably accept what is taught every time some alleged Christian leader with a publishing deal or a microphone concocts yet another wacky program or theology? Absolutely not! We are to test all teachings, sermons or philosophies to see if they match up to the Bible. (I Thess 5:21) Otherwise, some other neo-evangelical like Rick Warren will use the misguided idea of “unity before truth” to sidetrack others into what can only be referred to as cultism.

 

During his last visit with them, Paul warned the Ephesian elders that after his departure “grievous wolves (will) enter in among you, not sparing the flock.” Paul then states that “Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.” He concludes his warning by stating “Therefore watch…” (Acts 20:28-31a)

 

Peter writes, “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (II Peter 2:1) In these two passages, Peter and Paul are obviously directing their warnings at the Church. Therefore, it is not “disunity” to oppose unbiblical ideas and teaching inside the Body. It is actually the most appropriate thing to do.

 

My words here are not intended to give credence to individuals in church who are just plain disagreeable, who buck everything at every turn and who are bent on being upset over silly stuff. But when it comes to indubitably going along with Church leadership on any given issue – particularly, if it’s only for the sake of unity itself – just remember this phrase: Unity at the expense of truth is not the unity taught in the Bible. Believers should all be able to unify on that!

 

Copyright 2007, Eric Barger

Distributed by http://www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com 

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AMEN and AMEN!